Details of dasatinib + quercetin study

What were the dosages of dasatinib and quercetin used for this study? What kind of quercetin was used? Any issues or side effects noted so far?

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    • jpurc
    • jpurc
    • 5 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    jpurc

    Just a report on the Dasatinib and Quercetin I have been taking.  I have now taken the recommended dose with a weekly interval between them. The first dose was on Sunday March 10th and in the evening I had a headache which lasted into the night.  I took an aspirin and the headache went away.  I had no further side effects.

    The second dose was on Sunday March 17th and there were no side effects.

    I am 90 years old, so I was very pleased that the second dose didn't give me a headache, but just in case there was any blood thickening I took an aspirin.

    It is now a week since I took my second dose and I have noticed a small weight drop from 152 lbs  to 149 lbs., but that is the only difference so far and no change in my eating pattern. I will keep you posted about this.

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    • Kerry
    • Kerry
    • 4 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    I finished the second dose of D + Q last week, No ill effects. I have not really noticed any changes at all.

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    • Ozone8
    • Ozone8
    • 4 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    The D+Q protocol released by Bill Faloon contains several specific instructions I am curious about:

    1) 2.5 mg/kg of Dasatinib. Where did this dosage come from?

    2) take D +Q on an empty stomach. Why?

    3) No strenuous exercise for one week after taking D+Q? Why? and why one week?

    Any known answers or even speculation would be appreciated.

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    • Ozone8
    • Ozone8
    • 4 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Well, since there were no takers I will speculate myself:

    1) Don't know about dosage but it is good that the recommendation is individualized and based on body weight.

    2) The only reason I can think of is better absorption since there have been anecdotal reports of nausea after taking D+Q and who would sign up for that unless an empty stomach aids absorption.

    However, according to the PDR it appears that food does NOT impair absorption. In fact, a fatty meal may help:
    "Effects of food: Dasatinib absorption is not significantly affected by food. In subjects who received a single dasatinib 100-mg dose with a high-fat meal (fat, 52%: carbohydrates, 34%; and protein, 14%), the mean AUC increased by 14% compared with fasted subjects.[60087]"

    https://www.pdr.net/drug-summary/Sprycel-dasatinib-115.8464

    (scroll to very bottom of page)

    Perhaps quercetin absorption is  better when fasting.

    3) Either this is a caution to avoid problems with potential side effects or it is to allow  enough time for the D+Q to do its job without interference from exercise. Strenuous exercise might prevent the destruction of senescent cells?

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      • djmichel
      • CDR Phx
      • djmichel
      • 4 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Ozone8  I read the study and it seems that AUC, (the area under the curve (AUC) is the definite integral in a plot of drug concentration in blood plasma vs. time.)  This would mean taking Dasatnib with a meal that has a fat content of approximately 50% would result in a 15% greater concentration of Dasatnib in the blood.  So I surmise that the instruction of taking on an empty stomach is to  insure that the blood concentrations do not exceed the calculated dosages.  As to limiting exercise it is probably due to some studies that indicate the Dasatnib can cause Pulmonary  Atrial Hypertension.  Exercise with Dasatnib may exacerbate Pulmonary Hypertension due to increased Pulmonary stress, so waiting a week for Dasatnib clearance is probably recommended with due caution.   https://erj.ersjournals.com/content/48/suppl_60/OA262?utm_source=TrendMD&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=_European_Respiratory_Journal_TrendMD_0

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      • Ozone8
      • Ozone8
      • 4 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      djmichel Thanks for the clarifications. Wouldn't it be reasonable to take the Dasatinib with a fatty meal and adjust the dosage downward 10-15%? The less taken the better it would seem.

      As far as the exercise, I appreciate the reference you provided. The abstract states that "key questions remain regarding the long-term evolution of dasatinib-induced PAH and the mechanism(s) involved" and also "chronic dasatinib therapy causes pulmonary endothelial damage in humans". It appears that in this article at least the concern is directed to chronic dasatinib usage.

      What would constitute the "strenuous" exercise cautioned against? Is that running a marathon or intense weight training? Or would it also include  playing a recreational softball or soccer game and brisk walking?

      Finally, wouldn't all the dasatinib be cleared from the blood stream within 24 hours? If so, why a one-week restrictions from exercise? Would one-time usage cause enough damage to require such a time for pulmonary endothelial repair/regeneration?

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      • djmichel
      • CDR Phx
      • djmichel
      • 4 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      Ozone8 As far as I know the rules were determined by some study that I have no data on.  I suppose you could take a fatty meal, but why,  I have just followed the Life Extension protocol and everything has been ok.  So I take according to my weight, fast, and abstain from exercise for a week.  No problems so far. getting ready for the second round.

      Like 1
    • @djmichel   I find your postings useful and inspirational.

      I just received my order of 1 kg of rapamycin and 10gms of dasatinib in powdered form from China.  I will have them analyzed before I use them.

      I have been on Metformin 2 gms per day for about 8 years, since I noticed my morning glucose level was around 110.  Low-carbing, Metformin keep my A1C about 5.3.  Just added Acarbose for those times when I have no choice and have to consume a few carbs (my 65th birthday, e.g.). It is pretty great, once one gets used to it.  Does a good job of mopping up French fries and whole grain bread.  Quercetin, Pomegranate Extract, Boswellia, all seem to keep my PSA around 2.7, (which has increased about 1 over the last 10 years), though admittedly, my prostate is about twice as big as it should be.  Dad died at 83 from PC.  I also take Telmisartan, Nebivolol, and Amlodipine for BP, Tadalafil and Alfuzosin for BPH. 

      I've recently done the Mayo Clinic Fisetin protocol about three times, using a bit higher dosage than the "frail old ladies."  And I also stacked on some high doses of intermittent Azithromycin.

      So, Blood work:  I have noticed some abnormalities over the years and they have concerned me, because there is just no possible benign reason for them.  Total Serum protein is 60 (should be at least 66), normal albumin, so I guess the globulins must be a bit low overall.  Leukemia, anyone?  Atrophied thymus maybe?  Except the numbers all taken separately are normal to low normal.  The monocytes percentage has been as high as 12.5%, though the absolute numbers were .7 before I did the Fisetin.  Now, it's .5 and 10%.  PSA dropped to 2.3.  EGFR improved.  FGL, too.  I also take a 10mg Lipitor daily with 2 grams of instant release Niacin, ever since my doctor told me about 12 years ago that I was starting to build up some plaque in my carotids (about 33%).  That's apparently now down to 25%.  That's because my regimen boosted my HDL almost to the same level as LDL, and TG are almost not there.  The only worrisome thing is my D-Dimer which has been as high as 2000 and now is back down to about 1300, when it shouldn't be over 650.  I've been checked out for everything, every kind of cancer, pulmonary thrombosis, DVT, etc.  Nothing.  Clean stress test, too. I'm on TRT (Nebido).  It isn't cheap but seems to work well with few side effects.

      My doctor tells me not to worry about blood tests so much, that I'm a bit of a hypochondriac and questions why I take so many vitamins, etc.  (German doctors hate that stuff).  I fly to Ukraine and buy most things without a prescription.   I also lift three times a week, and keep my 45 year old wife drooling over my six-pack.   Just did a 4000km motorcycle tour through Eastern Europe last year with my 11-year-old son and am doing it again this year with my 12-year-old daughter on the back.  Grueling?  A bit.  I can do 100 sit-ups and 50 push-ups if I REALLY have to.

      If I have one real worry, it's that I've from time to time awakened from a dream with slight movement and fear RBD and the almost certain Parkinson's that'll come eventually.  For that reason, I take 5 mg of Selegiline a day.  The Hungarian doctor who invented it sold me on it.  That and Melatonin (15mg each night) seem to have kept it under control.

      Nobody cares about you and your health more than you.  Getting old ain't for sissies.   See you around the pool.

      Like 5
    • djmichel
    • CDR Phx
    • djmichel
    • 4 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Gravil,  great post as to your protocol.  Impressive.  I take around 40 vitamins a day, all based on studies.  I do not have excessive vascular calcium buildup, although I had a Calcium score performed and I came back with a minimal score, although it was still indicative of some buildup, but pretty good for 77. I did find a study that indicated that taking Policosanol can reverse Calcium buildup in the vascular system.  Let me know the results of your order and who you purchased them from.

    Best,

    David

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16099319

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  • Will do.  I bought the stuff from a dealer on alibaba. I'll post when I have it analyzed.

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    • djmichel
    • CDR Phx
    • djmichel
    • 4 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Started my biannual second round of D+Q this morning. Took on an empty stomach and will advise of any problems.  I had intended to start this round last month which would have been 6 months since my last round but was traveling.  I am still taking 5mg of Rapamycin every two weeks plus a daily regimen of supplements that would choke a horse.  All is good but that does remind me of the guy who jumped out of the Empire State building and as he fell past the 50th floor he yelled all is good so far.  

    Like 2
      • djmichel
      • CDR Phx
      • djmichel
      • 4 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

       So an update on my second biannual round of D-Q.  Well that pretty well kicked butt.  Had a lot of flu symptoms, achy fingers and joints, headache, and general malaise with slight nausea.  Ate light, and took it easy. Took an aspirin mid day and that helped a lot.  Slept well, the second day was still a little tired but much better. Today day three all is good.  feel well and good again.  Out and about.  

      Like 2
  • Ya know, DJ, I feel the same way.  If there were only some way to know whether or not this stuff is really helping . . .  All I can say for certain is that, whenever I do a two day course of high-dose fisetin, my brain fog clears, and I feel as if I have more energy.  😄  Still awaiting results on my Chinese dasatinib and rapamycin.

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    • Gavril Villiamovich what is the dose of fisetin on your 2 day dose protocol

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    • are we there yet - See below, my friend.

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    • Gavril Villiamovich How did Chinese dasatinib and rapamycin turn out?

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  • I weigh 90 kilos, so the recommendation is 180mg for the frail old ladies, two days in a row.  I take 300mg, cause I'm not a frail old lady.

    BTW, I just updated my profile photo.  I don't think I look too bad for 65.  Mama thinks I look better without a beard, so I might have to lose it.

    Weird, I did this on Monday and Tuesday, had my workout today, and I just KILLED it.  I don't know WHAT got into me, but dang, I feel good.  This is the 4th time this year I've done this.  Those senescent cells have got to be getting scarce!  Starting a dasatinib/quercetin regimen in a week from Saturday.  Goin' after ALL those pesky zombies! 

    Now, momma, get out of that bathroom!  Papa's feelin' MIGHTY frisky tonight!

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      • djmichel
      • CDR Phx
      • djmichel
      • 4 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

       Are you taking any Aromatse inhibitors?  One of my docs said it was important to keep esterdiols low as high esterdiol can cause heart problems, prostate problems in that esterdiol is suspect in many cancers.  I take 1/4 of 1 mg twice a month, on the 1st and 15th.  I also take a cruciferous vegetable extract containing DIM daily.  I have followed this protocol for 15 years.  My Urologist tells me that my prostrate is of normal size and my PSA Scoure 2.1.  Not too bad for 77 years old. 

      Also I was wondering about the info provided to you by your doc about the use of Deprenyl to prevent Parkinson disease. What is your daily intake.  A study a few years found benefit to those already suffering from Parkinsons.  

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22592509

      BTW your posts sound like you live in Europe?  Is that correct.  I live in South Florida on the ocean. 

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    • djmichel  1/4 of 1mg of which compound?Femara?

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    • djmichel I split my time between Germany and Ukraine.

      Been on Rapa now for a couple of months.  Sometimes, it seems to me that I am feeling pretty great, little by little.  No ideas just what to expect.  I keep up the same work schedule I've had for almost 40 years, but have bouts of not wanting to do anything other than web surf.  Building a house, traveling all the time and raising 12-year-old twins is a lot for most guys at any age, I guess.  Maybe I'll do another round of D&Q in January.  When you think about it, I just keep on going.  I dropped my Goldwing a couple of months ago coming off the autobahn too hot and having a rear brake failure.  I had a couple of hematomas (one on the elbow, the other on the hip, I was well protected), and other than that pretty much unscathed.  I picked up my 900 pound beast a little worse for wear, and drove another 600km before stopping for the night.  Sex is usually 9-12 times a month.  (Not trying to be too personal, just using it as an indicator).  My Russian/Ukrainian wife tells me that must men my age in Ukraine are already decomposing instead of doing what I do, composing songs on the piano or on a guitar that I've built.  Oh yeah, I build guitars as a hobby.  Mom had BC, and dad had PC.  Mom died from a hemorrhagic stroke, and dad from his PC, though he probably cost Medicare millions in various artery and heart surgeries.  We are not particularly long livers (Grandparents died in their 70's on mom's side, 80's on dad's), so I guess I just keep on doing what I am doing and hope for the best. 

      Like 1
    • djmichel
    • CDR Phx
    • djmichel
    • 4 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    Sorry, typing too fast.  I take 1/4 of a mg of Anastrozole, an Aromatase inhibitor.  Aromatase  through a process converts Testosterone to esterdiols.  It is important to note that Aromatase is produced by fat tissue generally in the belly.

    Like 1
    • djmichel Hey DJ. Sorry, it's been a long time since I replied.  Nebido is pretty great in that it doesn't seem to raise estradiol.  Sorta expensive, but I take a shot every 2-3 months.  

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  • Has anyone experimented with small doses of D&Q? I recently tried 40 mg D + one of LEF's Bio Q and had a minor 24 hour period of feeling crappy, followed by feeling better than usual. I wondering if a small dose every other day for a while might work as well as the usual doses without any serious downtime. Any thoughts?  BTW, I'm 150 lbs.

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  • Going to take D & Q this week and trying to decide dosage. Chart above shows ~ 150 mg & 1500 mg Q one day for 2 consecutive weeks. Just listened to this video describing study where participants were given 100 D & 10x Q for 3 consecutive days. Results were impressive 

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