Rapamycin and hgh

I’m thinking of beginning rapamycin and  I’m in very good physical condition and I’m wondering if anyone who is in excellent condition has started the program and noticed any effects? Also I am 70 years old so I’m going to try it but I have been taking HGH for the last 13 years and thought it was very beneficial. Has anyone taken HGH with rapamycin? 
I did read an interesting article which implied HGH could be beneficial because it promotes MTOR2 and rapamycin suppresses MTOR1.

However Dr. Green thinks growth hormone is inconsistent is it promotes Tor and aging. 

https://www.fightaging.org/archives/2018/02/rapamycin-does-not-interact-favorably-with-growth-hormone-receptor-knockout/

obviously I will experiment with taking rapamycin without growth hormone and then adding it back in probably taking it days4,5,6, after taking rapamycin. 
But I would appreciate anyone who has actually experience relaying their observations.

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    • Darren
    • Darren
    • 4 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    This is interesting I would like to see how HGH and Rapamycin interact together. 

    Like 1
  • Any updates?

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    • Frank Cordero no. But now that I have taken the rapa  for three months I have started taking growth hormone once a week the fifth day after I’ve taken the rapa. I will let you know any observations.

      Like 1
    • John Mcgough great, I’ve been taking HGH for about a year straight now with regular hormone blood panels and I’m curious as to the synergy of these two.

      Like
    • Michael
    • Michael.1
    • 3 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    John - Frank, have you two noticed any hgh benefit visavis cognition, energy and photo-aging? Thank you

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    • MAC
    • MAC
    • 3 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    I am currently only on DHEA/Testosterone, my FMD dosen't feel strongly about anything else currently. 55 yo male, excellent health/fitness, strict keto/OMAD.

    I did a bit of a deep dive on HGH, and from what I've read, it's PRO-AGING.

    Here's a fresh September 2020 review article.

    Growth hormone and aging

    https://sci-hub.se/10.1007/s11154-020-09593-2

    I wrote to the author, since the article pretty much cites evidence that HGH is pro-aging, although he referenced the FAHY HGH trial.

    He replied:

    "I feel VERY STRONGLY that GH accelerates aging"

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      • Michael
      • Michael.1
      • 3 yrs ago
      • Reported - view

      MAC I've seen that too. A doc client quasi buddy however (65'ish) swears by it. His vertical is extremely competitive however...I guess. I don't think he's considering long term. Makes him feel 20 again - cognitively. Though, he's got a daily supplement and prescription sheet that would make google sheets freeze.

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    • Bruce B
    • Bruce_123
    • 2 yrs ago
    • Reported - view

    I see Blagosklonny made a tweet mentioning the same. 

    https://mobile.twitter.com/Blagosklonny/status/1404903538321465354

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    • Michael_123
    • A is A
    • Michael_123
    • 1 yr ago
    • Reported - view

    Hi, John -- I recently joined, & noticed your post.  I'm 74, have been taking HgH for about 20 years; recently had 2 courses of F + Q, & would like to start Rapamycin.  I sent e-mail last week to Dr. Green, but no response.  However, I think some MDs closer to me, near Atlanta, GA, will give me Rx

    I was skeptical of Green's position re negatives of HgH, but have heard various arguments over the years, even from holistic MDs.  My basic position is we know HgH, DHEA, Testosterone, etc, decline dramatically with age, & if all were so dangerous, the hospital would be filled with 20 year olds, rather than those with nil levels of those hormones.

    However, HgH could react negatively with Rapa, etc  Any updates with your experience?  Thanks.

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    • Michael_B I have been taking HGH for 16 years. I have been taking rapamycin for 2 1/2 years. The only adjustments I have made if I do not take HGH daily and only take it five days after having taken my rapamycin dose and I have lowered my dose from two IU to 1/2.. I do this to avoid interference with rapamyosin as half-life is 72 hours so it should be out of my system and the HGH then has two days to work before I take my next rapa dose.

      I do not disagree it may be pro aging  but I think for quality of life everyone needs to keep all  their hormones  in the middle of the range. I take progesterone, DHEA, , testosterone  but keep them in the middle of the range and not at the top. 
      Basically I’m trying to get the benefits of both worlds. 
       

      I think you have to trust your best judgment after reading all the literature as no one really knows for sure though I obviously have been swayed by the pro growth view and now take lower doses of hormones.

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      • Michael_123
      • A is A
      • Michael_123
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      John Mcgough Thanks, John.  My plan would be to continue the HgH & DHEA, probably with a protocol as you are doing. Per Blagosklonny theory, which Green subscribes to, mTOR controls growth (as in HgH, protein, etc.) and just continues into aging, & then death.  We all realize this entire field -- even allopathic medicine -- is mostly experimental, but I suspect that high HGH, DHEA, T, has something to make the 20-30 year old in top shape, with no sign of degenerative disease, and it is the weaker immune system in later years, that permits accumulation of senescent cells, & related SASPs.  I think the F+Q & Rapa will handle that, so that HGH, DHEA, will once again be fully productive for we 70+ year olds.

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    • Bruce B
    • Bruce_123
    • 1 yr ago
    • Reported - view

    Hi Michael, I find it very interesting that you have been using HGH for 20 years, may I ask you to share some details?

    What dosage regimen have you utilize for HGH, and has it changed over the years?
    Have you maintained your body weight, height?
    Have you had any arthritis, joint or back issues, and weight problems?
    What is your subjective opinion about how you seem to be doing compared to your 70’s year old friends' & family?
    How’s your hair on your head look? 
    Have you had any of the epigenic tests done?

    One thing from firsthand experience I found is rapamycin does raise blood sugar substantially and that if you want to reduce it, metformin while it does reduce blood sugar during HGH usage somewhat, metformin did not reduce blood sugar levels when taking rapamycin for me no matter the dosage (though it did with my wife mimicking this mouse study below), now is that bad or good I have no clue, but I would like to find out.

    Metformin reduces glucose intolerance caused by rapamycin treatment in genetically heterogeneous female mice - PMC (nih.gov)

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      • Michael_123
      • A is A
      • Michael_123
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      Bruce B Hi, Bruce -- Often wonder if anybody notices various messages!  Actually I've probably been taking HgH for > 25 years.  I started with Dr. Sam Baxas, now deceased, via a Youth Rejuvenation Program, originally discussed / promoted? by Life Extension Institute.  The program included HgH, high DHEA, and I went through an initial round, repeated a few times over the years, of "live Cell" therapy, technically bio-modulators.

      The HgH dosage / protocol changed over the years.  I think I also started with maybe 1,000 mg DHEA daily, but reduced that to 200-400 many years ago.  I still take 100-300, as some evidence helps with allergies & other conditions.  I've never found current holistic recommendations of 25-50 to work for me.

      Not sure I recall initial HgH, but probably 2-3 iu. It changed from taking at bedtime,  twice daily, to just in morning, etc.  The past few years I mostly take 1/2 - 1 i.u. early in morning.  Both my IGF-1 levels & DHEA-S have always tested considerably above the upper range, but remember that the ranges are not only established from "averages" of generally unhealthy people, but are also "age appropriate."  Years ago LEF suggested one put age as about 20-30 for blood tests, so the ranges would be adjusted more to optimal.  These days they use DOB for ID, so at age 74 I'm compared to similar group.  My testosterone has also been very high, which I assume is due to HgH & DHEA (perhaps other items,) but I've never taken T injections.

      I'm heavier (now 195) than 25 years earlier, but at least some of that was knowing I was taking HgH & DHEA & started a resistance weight-training program.  I consciously wanted to add muscle, which we know weights more than fat.  Eating properly before & after exercise, helps to add muscle mass.

      Not to present an inaccurate picture, at 195 I'd like to lose 15 pounds, which I understand will be accomplished with Rapamycin.  Despite all the press re HgH, I doubt it ever hugely reduced my weight. And my exercise for years was mostly weight resistance, rather than cardio, where more weight would be lost/maintained.   I still use some weights -- mostly block dumbbells, several times during the day (I've worked for myself, trading financial markets, for at least past 20 years.)

      I'm still 6 foot tall, although probably lost 1/2 " over the years.  I've never found anyplace where height measurement is super accurate.  I have had trouble with herniated disc, which perhaps ironically, occurred while reaching for a large dumbbell 20 years ago.  I've treated holistically, & do some spinal decompression (at MD or chiro,) every few years.  My hair would not be a good measure, as I was mostly bald by age 20, a few years before my holistic awakening.  That may be caused by genetic DHT levels.

      I've never associated with many  people, and now not with older people.  But from occasional meetings, & hear-say, I don't think I have the usual issues of others my age. I've taken mega vits + DHEA + HgH, + misc other approaches over many years, & I've never once been able to associate any benefit -- or pain, etc, -- to any particular item.

      I'm also a long-time advocate / user of sauna (at least weekly, for 40 years;) hundreds of holistic IV; for 10+ years, ozone therapy, PEMF, and for 40 years pretty much used distilled water, both for drinking, & perhaps more impt, for washing/bathing (whole house reverse osmosis system.)  Very possible that 1-2 infra-red saunas weekly, esp past 10 years, has provided the most benefits, re detox, stimulating T cells, endorphins, etc.  Jury still out.

      I can't credit HgH, but I don't take any Rx meds, although use natural alternatives: Red Yeast Rice (statins,) white willow bark (aspirin,)  etc  It is possible that HgH, & high DHEA, has either caused or promoted my likely prostate cancer.  I say "likely," because the only "official" allopathic confirmation is with a biopsy and Gleason score.  I would not do a biopsy as I think enough evidence that it at least promotes cancer.  I've only treated CaP holistically, for 10 years, but I think both F+Q, & after I start Rapamycin, that will remedy the cancer.

      I've taken metformin on and off over the years.  Ward Dead had put me on phenformin perhaps 25 yea ago, but when removed from market, I found metformin.  Thanks for info re met & Rapa, re blood sugar.  Not sure what "high" means, nor for how long, etc., but will check it out.

      I have not done any epigenetic testing.  Generally, over the years, whether that or telomere testings, etc, the promise is more than deliverables.  But science changes, which is how/why I've come to Rapamycin.

      Regards,

      Like
    • Michael_B I just replied to your other email and now I read this one and I find we have a lot in common. I am 73 had terminal bone marrow cancer in 1980 which led me to the Gerson  program and very strict protocols in order to cure myself. I also have no friends my age as I get along with younger people better given that I am still fast thinking athletic and active.

      I continually experiment with different protocols and noticed you do PEMF (I presume you have a mat as I do ) you  might wanna look into doing rife Machine. The one I recommend is GB 4000 as it has greatly helped my daughter with Lyme disease and Addison’s and it also has raise my lymphocytes. 

      It was refreshing to read this someone has a similar lifestyles as I do and has also experimented with many other things I as have. 
       

      I live in Carlsbad California and I’m curious where you live?

      john

      Like
    • Michael_B by the way you should look into PollyMVA and consider the IVs plus you can buy it orally to continuously take it every day. Research it and come to your own conclusions but it can be effective against cancer.

      john

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      • Michael_123
      • A is A
      • Michael_123
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      John Mcgough Yes, brother-in-arms!  I do have the Mas Mat, not Bemer, but probably similar.  My mat has hundreds of pre programmed treatments for various conditions.  I've never found the Rife arguments sufficient, but many routes possible.

      I'm familiar with Gerson, and in fact I have the juicer they recommended / sold for years, that I would like to sell, mostly because I eat organic Paleo.

      Just saw your additional message:  I'm familiar with Poly MVA; even gave it to my dog with melanoma probably 20 years ago.  I also used GcMAF injectables (for my wife whom had colon cancer.)  Also familiar with probably 100-200 natural substances for various cancers protocols (artemisinin, high C IVs, Equol, etc.)

      I'm a big fan of ozone / oxygen therapies.

      I grew-up on Long Island - oddly, not that far from Dr. Green's office -- but after some time living in NYC, spent 30+ years outside of Princeton, NJ.  I did however take 1 1/2 years, circa late 1990s, & live in Petaluma, Sonoma County, CA,then back to NJ. Affter 10+ years in FL (Sarasota, Clearwater,) moved few months ago to outside Atlanta.

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      • Michael_123
      • A is A
      • Michael_123
      • 1 yr ago
      • Reported - view

      John Mcgough Interesting re bone barrow cancer since 1980s.  I assume approached holistically?  Gerson, means mostly juicing?  Multi vits?  High D?  What do you think helped you avoid the "terminal" prognosis?

      Whether MDs, or holistic sites, or even this anti-aging site, rarely is diet discussed, yet is super impt.  For all cancers, I think organic Keto is best; organic Paleo next.

      Also, nobody talks about liquids.  Far too many dangerous chemicals in city / county water systems to maintain health, no less try to remedy a cancer, for instance.  And while drinking distilled solves part of the problem, one actually absorbes more of the chemicals via washing / bathing.

      Regards,

      Like
    • Michael_B in addition to the fresh juicesGerson  involves three times a day coffee enemas and gallbladder flushes so heavy detox especially of the liver which is your largest organ in your body. Gerson‘s theory is that you get cancer when your liver is full of toxins which impairs your immune system. It takes one and a half to two years to cleanse the liver through his program.

      I also did a meditation, visualation  from Carl Simontons  book “getting well again “in which terminal patients  get a 20% cure rate and everybody double  life expectancy.

      I also changed most things in my life including getting divorced, doing all the things I wanted to do and working harder at being happy. 
       

      to this day I still do coffee enemas as they always make you feel better. When you do the enema you have to retain the coffee for about 12 minutes which is a learned skill.

      i’ve also done a lot of fasting , the fast mimicking diet and have noticed my lymphocytes go up after every fast. 
      if I can ever be of help you can always reach me at coaching hawaii@gmail.com.
       

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